Transcript

Josh: Recently I had the opportunity to sit down with Connor Sung, who is the director of eMoney’s Financial planning group. eMoney is one of the largest and most successful financial planning software companies in America. Connor has held various roles there since joining in 2013 and contributing to more than 10 years of technology, practice management, and planning experience to support both advisors and their clients. He is also a Certified Financial Planner (CFP), which is the gold standard in the financial planning industry. I think you’re going to enjoy our conversation. We talk about the direction of technology and how that can support both advisors and clients. We also talk about artificial intelligence, how that will enhance the experience but not replace all of us when it comes to the future. Thank you and God bless.
Connor, thanks for being with us today.
Connor: Thank you for having me.
Josh: Full disclosure, we’re power users of eMoney, and you’re the director of financial planning at eMoney, so our clients also end up using the software as well on a daily basis. Glad to have you on and it’ll be great to learn from you.
Connor: I look forward to talking about tech in the market and financial planning at the heart of all that.
Josh: Lots of uncertainty in the world, so a lot of what we try to provide is some sense of certainty through the things we can control with financial planning. But before we dig into that, what attracted you to the eMoney company originally, and how has your role evolved since you came on board?
Connor: When I was a finance undergrad, the explosion of financial planning and financial planning technology as a career path was still in its infancy. I started as part of a customer service team answering Tier 1 calls of financial advisors for support on the tech. Then as I went along, I picked up my CFP and did a couple other designations. I’ve carved out a niche inside technology, supporting financial advisors with best practices, best use, better adoption of financial planning. All of that is in support of quality advice that advisors are passing on to their clients.
Josh: Yeah, that’s great. And as far as the software, how has that evolved since you came on board? What have been some of the biggest things you’ve seen change since that point?
Connor: The two major spots are the collaborative planning and our client experience. We continue to invest a ton of resources toward the overarching picture. It’s better engagement, a better experience, a more personalized version of what a financial plan used to be, converted into this more adaptable, interactive and collaborative piece where advisors and clients are able to build financial plans together, versus going through a fact-gathering experience and then having a meeting a month later, and another meeting a month later after that. Now you’re able to do that stuff through tools like the decision center or through something like a client portal where you’re able to share that financial planning experience. You’re also able to offer other features and functionality around the financial plan, such as consolidation of assets and organization of someone’s financial life.
Josh: This is my 25th year in the industry, so I’m dating myself a bit, but when I started as an advisor, there would be this lengthy fact finding, and a stack of documents you went through with the client, but it was irrelevant. The next day, everything changed. So that’s one thing we really appreciate about the software, because our approach is that financial planning is something ongoing and it’s changing constantly.
Connor: Yeah, we make the joke that the only things that are 100% true are life, death, taxes and the fact that none of those plans were actually looked at.
Josh: Right. Absolutely. The plan got worked out once in the office, right? And then people took it home where it collected dust. So, right now AI looks like it’s gonna impact every sector, every industry, every company. What do you see as far as trends shaping the future of financial planning technology and what you guys do and what you’re seeing?
Connor: Well, AI is going to be impactful across every industry. Even as we are recording this, it’s going to build a summary page of take-away items. So as part of financial planning, that technology is already here and AI is doing some administrative tasks and building efficiencies into an engagement. For example, every morning I listen to Spotify and I have a daily briefing, which is the combination of my music that I’ve liked plus some other new stuff I’ve liked which yields this combination that’s super personalized. As it pertains to fintech (financial tech), I think we will continue to build and figure out how to adopt AI into financial planning engagements more. There’s the aspect of client communication; there’s documentation note-taking. Those things have already started to be commoditized via that technology. With regard to planning engagement, we’re still trying to figure out exactly where to go to be closely personalized. You’ll start to see our first strides into that over the course of the next 12 to 18 months. We’ve built essentially a rules engine to look into pieces of information that have been put into the fact pattern, and then offering up suggestions on some of the topics or techniques that advisors should be talking about with their clients. It will also output some sort of recommendation to the advisor.
Josh: Yeah, and as far as clients and how they interact, we’ve just had some rollouts here recently. It seems like the optics are getting a lot better for clients. As far as an end user experience, do you think that AI will weave its way into that as well?
Connor: I do, and I think some of what we’re calling autonomous planning will be our first stab into some more tech-led advice pieces. Some of that stuff will start to filter its way into client planning. So we believe that financial advisors are crucial for a financial well-being relationship that revolves around a financial plan. With that being said, we also believe the clients should be enabled to play around with their own plan. At the end of the day, it’s their values and their value alignment that you’re trying to help deliver money to drive toward success. I think some of this stuff will end up on the client experience side where it’s less about the advice delivered by an advisor, and it’s more about the tech helping surface opportunities and then driving people back to their advisor. That way they can ask, “Hey, the technology offered up this idea. Is this a thing? Can we do this?” I think it’ll be beneficial for all parties, including the technology. It’s cool stuff.
Josh: Yeah, absolutely. One thing I’ve always appreciated about eMoney, is that even at the beginning when I started as an independent advisor and started using the software back in 2010, it was built to be a two-way tool, right? The client had access. We advisors accessed some different functions, but it has evolved more and more that the client has more optics and more tools. So ,the collaboration that can happen is a great thing. And again, we’re seeing that across all industries. A lot of people are talking about their fears that there won’t be a need for doctors, or airline pilots, etc. I don’t really buy into that any more than I believe that our profession is going to go away. I just think that the tools are going to get better and it’s going to make us better at our job.
Connor: Yeah, definitely. Years ago, I would have said that this move toward holistic planning is still continuing, but now I’d say we’re there; we’re at a spot where the quality of the advice is going to be the differentiator, not the actual quantity of advice that is offered. That’s why the CFP board is working their brand standard around what the definition of a financial planner is versus financial advisor. That in combination with a lot of the mergers and acquisitions that are happening across the wealth management space means we’ll start to see a lot more regulation around requirements for specific financial planning topics as well as requirements and regulations around use of technology. I think it will be a huge raise of the bar across the board as to the quality of advice that’s offered to clients, and the alignment of how people pay for that advice. We’ll continue to evolve as the quality of the plans evolve.
Josh: Yeah, you’re right. I think there continues to be some confusion for the consumer about the difference between a producer, a financial advisor, a Certified Financial Planner. So, the CFP board has done a good job defining what it actually means and what client engagement looks like. In my experience, if a client or prospective client asks, “Do you provide financial planning?” most people in our industry say, “Of course we do.” But as far as what that actually means, what they get is very inconsistent.
Connor: Yeah, definitely.
Josh: Let’s shift gears a little bit. You are the host of The Heart of Advice podcast. How has that experience been for you and what’s a valuable lesson you’ve learned from your conversations with financial advisors? You talk to people like me all the time, so what have you learned on your end as you’ve been going through that experience?
Connor: Podcasting is fun, but it’s difficult. I co-host with another one of my colleagues. She and I have released 10 or so episodes at this point. One of the more difficult things we’ve gone through is doing it in a remote environment where I’m pulling cues off somebody via zoom and trying to understand when my co-host is gonna jump in and when I should stop talking, being aware of my vocal reactions and my facial reactions. It’s been a journey and I correlate it a lot to having virtual meetings with my financial advisor and being able to read people’s faces, to understand where they’re at with body language. It’s been fun, but it’s been difficult to go without access to in-person communication. And there are different challenges with releasing out something where I’m interviewing versus just having a more informal conversation or an internal meeting.
Josh: Yeah, absolutely. How do you approach financial education on your end from the eMoney standpoint too? There’s an upcoming eMoney conference for financial advisors that you’ll be speaking at. How do you guys approach financial education internally to ensure that your team stays at the forefront and stays relevant as things are changing so quickly?
Connor: So, we have a specific pod inside the financial planning group that is dedicated toward financial education and financial wellness. There is a ton of content that comes from that group of subject matter experts that are accredited with everything from a PhD through CHFC, CFP’s as well as AFCS, which is financial counseling. So there are a lot of opportunities across our blog, a lot of which is advisor facing. A decent amount is actual just pure financial education on any number of financial planning topics. We have webinars monthly, and we participate in programs like externship and others to try and help other organizations that are delivering education and advice to that next generation of financial professionals.
Josh: Yeah, that’s great. So, what would you say are some of the resources that you really enjoy, Connor, and you think are helpful as far as staying up on the financial industry and the financial planning industry?
Connor: Well, number one, as far as the financial planning industry goes, I think Michael Kitces does a phenomenal job of staying completely agnostic. We don’t always agree with his opinions, but they are typically pretty true. He’s a wonderful resource for financial advisors to stay up to date on everything from technology through client engagement and practice management. As far as my own personal financial education, I listen to a few podcasts. I’ll throw the plug in here: We have to listen to the “Wiser Financial Advisor” podcast. I have a few newsletters that I track down. One is “The Morning Brew,” which is pretty general in nature. It’s high enough level where you’re not deep diving into anything particular. There are also daily versions of that podcast out there, and a ton of deeper dive podcasts that come out pretty frequently. I like “The Motley Fool,” which is a money podcast that’s a lot of fun. And “Nerd Wallet” is a great place for consumer education. Those are a few of the spots that I run down.
Josh: There’s never been a time when there has been such a plethora of resources, most of which are free, right? Some of the newsletters and things are really not that expensive even, but can be super valuable from an education track standpoint and keeping up with things. But as far as new people coming into the industry, what advice would you give to, say, a young financial advisor, maybe just graduating from college, just starting their career? What advice would you give as far as what they should do to start being successful and find their place in the financial industry?
Connor: Personally, I’ve made my own way as far as finding fintech as a career versus actual financial planning or financial advice. That will continue to be my advice to most folks that are in a registered program or a financial planning undergrad. or working on their capstone, or whatever it is that they’re pursuing at the time. Historically, you would have joined a warehouse and cut your teeth there and then maybe move to starting your own business and figure it out. But I would say keep your eyes open. There are a ton of other opportunities. You don’t necessarily have to go directly into production. Obviously production is going to be the majority of where folks end up. But if you look at the huge financial companies now, the home office services and staff are differentiating. So if you find one of these major companies, they’re hiring financial planners to help with centralized planning services or fintech. If we look at the Kitces map, I think that started in 2019 and over the course of the last five years, it’s grown significantly. At least for now, the private equity is getting dumped into the fintech market as well as just these niche planning services that are continuing to help personalize the depth and the level of advice. I can’t imagine that fintechs won’t keep popping up. I’m 100% biased, but it’s an awesome opportunity to feel like you’re making a difference. Even if I’m making a difference a little bit in your life and then you’re able to pass that on, there’s that mental gratitude, that mental currency from helping your clients.
Josh: Yeah, you’re right. There are so many opportunities now versus traditionally decades ago. Back then, there was one path, and if you didn’t make it knocking on doors or cold calling or whatever it was that they defined as success to make your business work, you were kind of blown out of the industry, right? So, what’s one piece of advice that you would give to financial advisors? I’ll admit sometimes I get a little nervous looking at the future and being concerned about AI and thinking gosh, we might get replaced. What would be one piece of advice that you would give to advisors looking to attempt to future-proof their practices within the change in environment that we’re in?
Connor: I would say clean your data. AI will be impactful in the next maybe 18 months to three years. I think technology is going to take a while to figure out the right adaptations of some of the public models. But that’s always based off of the quality of the data going into those models. So I look across my financial planning software and eMoney, and ultimately I have two to three versions of households built into there. I have two to three versions of clients in my CRM system that are not linked to the right households. All of that stuff is just going to produce trash that comes out the back end of the AI. While it is a major headache, I’d say either hire somebody or dedicate X amount of time per day yourself as you go through reviews, for the purpose of cleaning data. Data cleanliness is going to be a major problem in the next two plus years.
Josh: So, trash out, right? How do you personally stay organized just as your role has evolved? You’ve taken on a lot more responsibilities and also being host of the podcast and so forth, your job has gotten more demanding. How have you worked to stay personally productive and organized in such a demanding role?
Connor: Number one, as far as my own personal finances, I use the eMoney client portal myself, fully understanding that my connections are not going to stay up to date at all times. As needed, I go in and update all my passwords and stuff for certain life events, and go through the 30-40 minute headache of doing that.
Josh: Yeah, I do too.
Connor: Then on a professional level, I’m in between softwares right now, but there are some awesome workflow-creating softwares out there. So, in lieu of having perfectly integrated systems where I input one piece of information and it flows perfectly across all of my stuff—in lieu of that, there are technology companies that offer essentially a macro based service where it does something like that, whether it’s manually doing it through your computer, or if it’s them centralizing some aspects of data. It does not fit for all pieces of an engagement model or a project plan, but I would say to investigate some workflow tools to help supplement some of the more manual processes that you have to work through.
Josh: Thank you so much for your time, Connor, and thank you for your service in the industry. We appreciate the partnership that we have with eMoney. It’s a pretty central part of not only how we work on a day-to-day basis, but also how our clients interact with us and our planning with them. So, thank you. Appreciate your time.
Connor: Thank you. And keep on building some financial confidence and peace of mind out there for us.

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The opinions voice in the Wiser Financial Advisor show with host Josh Nelson are for general information only, and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual. To determine what may be appropriate for you, consult with your attorney, accountant, financial or tax advisor prior to investing. Investment Advisory services offered by Keystone Financial Services, an SEC registered investment advisor.
estment advisory services offered by Keystone Financial Services, an SEC registered investment advisor.